DNA Sequencing

Do these pictures have any relevance for anyone?

Or these …

Aloe haworthioides and Aloiampelos striatula. What this has to do with Haworthia is demonstrate that DNA sequencing is highly suspect as a sure fire answer to classification problems. If we take Aloe haworthioides as an example, you will, or should have, read that piece out of Updates Vol 6. It explains the morphological oddity that it is. If you now refer to the paper by Manning et. al. that creates the aloid genera in Asphodelaceae for SANBI (South African Biodiversity Institute), a problem emerges. In the concatenation of the plastid region sequences, A. haworthioides is in the same clade as A. greatheadii, A. excelsa, A. de winteri and A. petricola. But with the nuclear region sequencing the clade includes A. lutescens, A. comosa, A. rupestris, A. munchi and Chortolirion angolense. In both cases, a more probable bunch of misfits you cannot imagine. Admittedly the statistical probabilities for the significance of the branching are poor. But this belies the extraordinary statement in the paper that evidence of a reticulated relationship as opposed to the evolutionary linear one, is obvious by its absence.

If we look at Aloiampelos (not Aloe anymore) striatula, the plastid sequencing places it with A. graciis, A. tenuior, A.ciliaris and A. commixta. With the nuclear sequence added, the arrangement stays the same. Seems OK until you consider, does the vegetative growth of A. striatula resemble that of the others? I do not think so. Furthermore it is geographically powerfully separated by its occurrence in the high mountains of the interior Eastern Cape, whereas the others are in the near coastal or lower lying areas. So what is the problem? Look at the flower of A. striatula. It is rather roughish but the remarkable thing is that instead of a petal/sepal arrangement in which there are the normal two upper outer sepals and one single lower outer sepal, with a single inner upper sepal and two inner lower ones, in A. striatula the situation is completely reversed. The flower is grossly different. The morphology of these two species in my opinion makes a mockery of sequencing as a sure-fire answer to classification. Add to this my experience with several sequencing projects, providing the material according to a pre-determined hypothesis and being ejected from the projects by questioning the results with new hypotheses written to fit; my confidence in science is fragmented.

Furthermore, examination of the Haworthia clades in both phyllograms of the Manning paper demonstrates very poor resolution. What there can be extracted is that the relationships are highly reticulate. This adds to my contention that any phyllogram (evolutionary tree) drawn in the two dimensions of the flat plane are totally misleading. This is obvious if you resort to a proper species definition of objects changing in geographic space and in time.

NOTE: I have to confess that I am a bit puzzled by the one picture of mine showing the end face of the flower that appears to show a single inner upper sepal. The cross-sections prove the odd arrangement. These pictures are from many years ago and my memory fails me. ♦

Mirabilis MBB7513

Sitting back with time to think and contemplate! Society needs recalibration and while I honestly feel it is actually happening there is still a thick coating of sheer ignorance that holds us back. Here is a set of photographs from what is a very small area with 4 major habitat conditions. Sheet rock under partial shade. Huge pocketed conglomerate boulders shrouded in lichens. A broken small bolder verge and slope. And a gravelly shale area with small low scrub. Look how the plants vary. In my opinion this is all H. mirabilis MBB7513 and a small representation of a vast collage of individuals and populations that comprise that system.

The flower pictures of H. mirabilis MBB7513 show how variable those can be too – despite the familiar “the flowers are all the same”.

Mutica reminiscences

Reminiscences – a particularly nice plant of Haworthia mutica.

It seems a picture cannot ever capture the essence of the living plants in nature. These are also H. mutica down south and east of Bredasdorp.

If I were asked to explain how things are put together in creation, I would answer something like this…


Are we knowledgeable? This seems such strange question to ask until one really begins to explore the meaning of information and knowledge. We really seem to live in a world of confusion and disbelief. I ask the question in the sphere of plant classification and this exercise in arranging and organising plants by form and appearance into a system of names an classification that is supposed to make sense and lay the foundation for the basis of still more information and knowledge. But does it actually do that and serve such a profound function. The more I learn of the subject and try to understand all its ramifications, the more concerned I am that we have not addressed Prof. A. Croncquist’s question to his fellow international taxonomists at a world taxonomic summit (Miami, Fairchild Arboretum 1987?)…”Do we know what we are doing?”

Well how can we know if we do not even have a well-defined and decisive concept of what a “species” might actually be? Adding to the confusion is the Linnaean binomial genus/species system that insists there exists a natural system of creation based on idea of survival of the fittest and adaptation of living things to environmental influences. There are scientists today who question this now aged conviction and ask very pertinent questions about the nature of DNA, function and form. It is long time we reviewed belief, convention, habits and systems that do not truly fulfil the need and promises of the time.

Think for a moment what leading writers like Rupert Sheldrake, Stephen Meyer and Donald Hofmann are trying to explain to use beyond the clamour for recognition, acknowledgement and effect we feel so pushed to achieve. What for the sake of meaning are the Platonic solids and what might they have to do with formlessness and form? It is quite incredible to consider that these “solids” and their significance have been virtually ignored in the modern era. The “solids” are the five shapes with regular sides and faces that can be fitted into a cube. The term “solid” is simply a misnomer. They are the diagrams of five energy fields each representing one of the five basic elements of nature viz. earth, water, fire, air and ether. They arise from either the numerical zero or infinite zero at the centre of an imaginary cube, and the points of intensity at the apices of the triangles represent the energy matrices of an expanding cube. Such basic elements of nature were well-known in mysticism and ancient religions and their significance is quite lost in a society mislead by intellectualism and belief systems.

The significance of the energy fields is that they are formless but all forms in creation arise from the organisation and patterns of energy derived from an infinite series of such fields and all matter in creation is organised according to these energy fields.


It is so nice to be able to share memories like this. The mysterious ever different vein patterning calls to mind Dancing wu-li masters. Colour too is so enchanting where the leaves can allow or disallow light into the deep interior. Leaf shape is just as mysterious and no two leaves are ever the same. Language is such funny stuff. “Mutica” is supposed to mean without a point. When Col. Scott encountered H. springbokvlakensis he first took it to be the missing H. mutica that had not yet been identified to a field source and population. G.G. Smith had made a similar mistake and described H. otzenii without realizing that it was Haworth’s H. mutica. I really need to see some old reference material. I am sure the translation for the Latin descriptive term “retuse”, is given by Haworth as meaning “bent back like a thumb”. It is not the contorted shape of a flat leaf with the margins overgrowing the mid point of the leaf as in present day use. In H. mutica there is in fact every degree of “non-pointedness” of the leaves. Perhaps this is one of the significant ways in which Haworthia is mistaken to be different from other plant genera and species. Smith followed Reynolds in how he had collected and described “species”. Now Aloe and Haworthia ARE in the way in which a single specimen of, say, Aloe ferox in any one population can in a general sense taken to represent what Aloe ferox looks like anywhere in its distribution range. This sure does not apply in the haworthiads.

Another 3 from the same population as the previous 5 mutica. Emile Heunis once commented that this was his favourite H species, which coming from the plant wizard he is, is a real recommendation. I can never get enough of these magical nuances of texture colour and shade.

More mutica pictures to muse over. Check individual leaf shapes and especially the dancing flames of the veins as they leave the protected leaf base.

I should make a collage of individual leaves to illustrate venational differences acrooss the spectrum, from plants with very few, many, very windowed and then simply straight. It is the fun stuff that attracts us?

These mutica plants I have posted recently are all from the same place and here are two clones that demonstrate huge differences in venation. Incidentally, some of the clones in this population were very proliferous.

This was such a strong population. It seems so strange musing about variability and how we each deal with it. I sometimes just examine the leaf shapes and reflect that often no two leaves have the same outline and end shape.

I am at the end of my active life and realise there is still an important statement to make about these plants. Not only do the plants change in respect of where and under what conditions, they change in respect of our own personal perceptions and attitudes too. Do our perceptions and attitudes change like this as well. There are the last 4 mutica pictures I have of this one population. It is extraordinary to think of it as something permanently etched on the screen of time. No matter who or what does what, it can be taken to exit and it is just a matter of having valued that experience of contact and its existence.

I have often taken people into the field – or at least accompanied them, as they make real contact with nature for virtually the first time. Also I have been taken into the field and shown things many times, remembering new experience and plants and animals I had never seen before. Often being amazed by being told that things that look different are the same, and things that look the same are different – despite far too much experience to be so easily fooled. Plant and animal life is just incredibly complex and I think we have all been suckered into looking at things in the wrong way. Gordon Rowley was an amazing man and I am so glad to have met him and benefitted from his opinions and expertise. He was wanting me to maintain the plethora of names against my own wish to simply try and understand the system that was the science of the times suggested was correct. I think Gordon was right and I am sorry I did not have the means and abilities to maintain all those many names in meaningful way. I will look around and see what comes to mind. But largely I will unfairly lay the blame at the magazines and journals that serve collector and grower interests. The prime function of these societies, their committees and activities should be to manage the language and names that make up information and knowledge. ♦

Closing Thoughts on Haworthia

Closing Thoughts on Haworthia is a sequel to Thoughts on Haworthia (1999) which was a product of a great awakening for me and also confusion, as there was so much to say.  It simply grew like Topsy to say virtually nothing other than try and explain that we would not understand anything until we came to the realization that this is a conscious creation.  It is NOT the mechanistic wonderland that the intellectual “science” we worship would have us believe.  Maharaj Seth Shiv Dayal Singh wrote a series of poems on the subject of mysticism and warned that we “… woo the subject of knowledge” at our peril.  Guru Nanak was a 14th century mystic that also warned that all we needed to know was the letter “A”. Another dying mystic is reported to have said…”I do not know anything, I will never know anything”.  While not remotely near that level of insight, I clearly see (… now that is a taxonomic term that actually means “it is not very clear to me at all”.) that all knowledge is very fuzzy around the edges.  It was this thought that got me out of bed to finally to examine it in writing.  The reason I write, or wrote at all, has also been a subject of my research and like everything else is fuzzy around the edges.  Essentially I write to explore my mind and its convolutions.  Largely this does not help because it is hampered by personal idiosyncrasy and by serious intellectual limitations.  Anyway I got out of bed and went to the internet and found a post presenting a video entitled… “All I have seen teaches me to trust the Creator for all I have not seen.”  This is a quote from Ralph Waldo Emerson, explained by a mystic Maharaj Lama Rasaji.  Of course there are mystics and there are mystics.  Presently science would have us dismiss them all regardless, as weirdoes.  So indeed I enter this maze of ideas swirling mist of thoughts trying to find where to start or even where to stop.  All helped along by Jeffrey Kaplan explaining (Bertrand) Russell’s paradox.  Here is another YouTube site beautifully discussing the same topic …  Up and Atom at least narrated if not compiled by Jade Joyce Tan-Holmes.

The very beginning?

Among the many avenues of thought I have been exploring recently is the problem of scientific names where their origins, meaning and manipulations cause havoc exactly where you would think they were meant to bring order.  Another avenue of thought was the massive conflict between a need to know and a need to keep things secret.  This is the question of the location of plants sought after for either the saintly needs of science or the satanic needs of commerce – or conversely satanic needs of science versus the human needs of commerce, depending on a prejudiced point of view.  Nobody seems to pay any attention to the appeal of plants to the inner true nature of man and his relation to nature.  But we come to that later.  So let us start with that first avenue of thought, the problem of identification and flux of scientific names.

Among my many thoughts is the idea that plant taxonomy is actually some sort of delusional activity that is getting us nowhere.  I thought science was an activity directed at understanding human existence and the world around us, operating under the four Mertonian Norms expounded by an Australian soil scientist John Robert Philip in Enigma 5. Cabbages and Kings.

Briefly…  
1. Universal truth. 
2. Communality and no secrets. 
3. No personal gain. 
4. Organised scepticism. 

Does modern science operate according to these principals?  I would say “hardly”.  We pursue knowledge for knowledge sake alone and for what benefit we can derive from it.  My experience is that plant taxonomy has almost totally lost itself in trying to satisfy both the intellectuals that do the work and the people at the work-face who need names.  It has lost itself on the very basic definition and understanding what those basic life forms might be that we so pedantically and righteously name or meddle with i.e. species.  It does not even seem to occur to taxonomists to truly question the purpose of their activity and what impact it may have on anyone who may need names and stability for the system in which they are so rigorously or self righteously placed.  Science has lost itself on its principle (see “cognitive dissonance”).

Here is where I wrestle with a wish to explain my life experience and why I write what I do.  It is also why I mentioned the conflict between the “science” of taxonomy and the practical use of the product i.e. a classification system from Kingdom down to varieties, cultivars and forms however we define those terms and the fuzziness they become enveloped in.

Intrinsically everyone knows what the word “species” means.  It is a set of similar things but what we do not know is how much dissimilarity is in any one set.  It is imagined that DNA is the basic element of genetics and thus similarity but it is an obvious truth that DNA does not control form e.g. the DNA in your toe is the same as in a hair of your body as in the iris of your eye. There is something else at work at a deeper level.

We all know what species are.  They are the myriad of different life forms.  Kinds of things like elephants, lions, tigers, antelopes, palm trees, barnacles, fungi etc.  But there is a problem because some of those names are sets of similar things but we do not know how similar nor recognise when dissimilarity is similarity.  Not that I am an expert or even knowledgeable about number or set theory.  I do not think anyone has to be.  A species is also a set of particular things at the outset of biological science, defined (or tacitly accepted?) as… “a group or groups of individuals that are or are potentially, interbreeding”.  Botany has blithely followed this definition that may be true of higher animals, but certainly not of plants.  Plants can hybridise across generic differences.  I do not know about higher taxonomic categories.  What we do when we try to classify plants as Haworthia is a work in a process that will solve the problem of what the species are.  We supposedly analyse all the various aspects of the plant that constitute their individual characters and create a process by which we can describe and identify them – an algorithm.  It is thus interesting to consider that YouTube video that discusses the most perplexing problem in computer science.  This is because in many genera, species are easy or alternatively very difficult to segregate or define.  The YouTube discusses this as the problem as those that can be solved with the capacity of computer power and the time needed to run the algorithm to get to a solution and those that that no algorithm can be developed to arrive at a solution.  So let me write again – the algorithm is the collection of data or information about the plants and their characters that you might use in the process of description and identification.  Now I am not sure if I have this right, or even explained it adequately, but the computer scientists seem to be stuck on the issue of similarity of the problem that an algorithm can be found that works and gives a solution and that one can easily confirm is a correct one.

But does it matter?  I did ask a highly intellectual friend to comment on the video and he was quite dismissive.  Saying…” these subjects are much better known and more carefully thought out than is being told to you in that video”.  Regarding intellectualism now, let me quote a 14th century mystic viz Kabir… “No intellectual is ever certain or can be”.   What I conclude in “thoughts” was that taxonomy would never arrived at the truth until is admitted that this is a conscious creation.  What this means is that no algorithm will ever provide a solution to any of those large unsolvable problem until it also incorporates information/data from the metaphysical realm.  The physical realm is an illusion and a dream.  It seems real to us but it is not.  Things will always be fuzzy around the edges.

Coming back to taxonomy and species, we can see now that some plant groups seem easily solvable and some not.  But a curious problem arises that I struggled with at a time when amateur taxonomists (i.e. bus drivers, musicians, traffic policemen, engineers, mathematicians, insurance brokers, battery salesmen, accountants and the like within my ken, were outpacing and outperforming professional taxonomic botanists.  This was the question of whether taxonomy was science or art.  I argued strenuously that it was science.  I was mostly wrong.  It should be science.  It is also not art.  It is a form of guesswork.  So it should be science.  Let us see.  The methodology of science is said to be systematic observation, measurement, experiment, and the formulation, testing and modification of hypotheses.  If one scientist does the sampling and analysis, repetition and agreement from others is necessary to reach acceptance.  In taxonomy this is in fact extremely rare however generous one is to herbarium wizards that use classification keys and descriptions to identify specimens.  If you had to send two scientists to independently go into the field, sample and analyse the members of a genus to establish its member species, the chances of agreement at the outcome of their analyses are close to zero.  Perhaps it is necessary to say this is not true of all genera, but it is most certainly true of Haworthia.  Apart from the idiosyncratic nature of individual people the plants themselves show such considerable individual variation that should our two scientists have by chance sampled even the same populations, the conclusions would be different.  The variables are too many and too great to submit to the processes (algorithms) the two would have used.  Neither can we include what are surely the most important ones of the metaphysical component.  My contention is here, as greater minds also argue, that the nature of species is not determined by physical elements and morphological or other material characters.  Species are determined by non-material i.e. metaphysical realities like the elements of fire earth air water and ether as recognised in mystic terminology.

Dr John Davidson is a scientist and also a student of mysticism whose intellect is reflected in some amazing publications.  He made the statement that the meaning (definition) of species in science was not the same as that in metaphysics.  I find that unacceptable as it is like saying that the reality of a number like 4, is in physics different to that in the mystic dimension.  In other words it is necessary for the definitions to be the same.

But I have also used the term “genus” very loosely as though it is as basic an object as a species.  It needs a philosopher to have the intellectual concepts and language to debate this and there is no shortage of them so you will have to forgive me as a virtual layman for examining thoughts like this outside of the rarefied atmosphere of academia.  A genus is as badly defined as the word species.  It is not a basic element of creation.  The mystic literature is full of references to the Wheel of 84, (Chaurasi).  It refers to a specific number of life forms (species) in creation i.e.  84 lakhs of kinds, where a lakh is 100,000.  It is an essential requirement of any understanding to recognise that this might be true as indicative of the metaphysical element of creation and a need to recognise that.  As Sheldrake argues, as others do, that consciousness must have come first and then creation.  It is not that consciousness is a derivative of an evolutionary process from primitive organic materials.

Modern science is driven by the conviction of evolution and change driven by fitness levels.  So the concept is held that the species are likened to the apices of a branched tree.  The sequentially thinning branches represent different taxonomic categories.  The genus is the term applied to the last branch that projects the individual twigs that the term species is used.  It actually has no truth.  It is not real.  It is a construct of intellectual abstraction.  In the last few decades DNA analyses has swamped the system and a species definition (if articulated at all) is that the level of agreement of the sequence of DNA bases connecting the chromatid strands is greater than some barely defined level of statistical probability.  My simple minded observation is that sampling and repetitive observation and/or experimentation are grossly inadequate and usually based on a pre-existing classification.  Not only that, but in complex groups like the Asphodelaceae (includes Haworthia) suggests that the species cannot be identified in the final product of a two dimensional phylogram (classification tree).  In some groups it gets so bad that, as has happened in Asphodelaceae, there is no agreement at even generic levels.  Thus while in South Africa one classification is accepted for the Alooideae, in Europe it is not.

I have pointed out before that personally at least, I cannot remotely see how a two dimensional phylogram and statistical analytical procedure can be used to arrive at a decision on the product of a process of change in time and space.  Here I agree that change does occur and my observation that is can be a lot faster than generally believed.   The change is not of that of one species to another.  It is a change of the basic life from to another form while still being the same species.  Species do not change as basic elements. They only change appearance.  Some may disappear and new ones may arise from what existed, but it is not the progressive change that Darwinism proposes.

Here I do sit back and smile.  I once argued publicly that the Cape floral Kingdom was grossly misrepresented and that in fact we had a winter rainfall biome predicated by geology, rainfall, soil and gross landform.  A very smart intellectual dismissed this as something that needs to be debated in the academic arena (and not by unrecognised unqualified observers? – me).

There are two conclusions one comes to from the above considerations.  One is that classification is not remotely “science”.  It is the fanciful end product by the decision of one individual rarely in conjunction with a collaborator.  Second that the data required to reach a decision on what constitutes a genus is mired in conflict.  We can consider that the genus category is not real and is a product of an inadequately objective process, and then that the species level decision is confounded by a lack of definition and by the limitations of sampling and the impossibility of tracking change (similarity) with time by a limited lone observer?

These observations are borne out by all my experience not only of my own observations, but to learn and observe how different the data sets are that other similarly inspired observers acquire.  I only hold a stronger hand because I have the benefit of having seen the records of many more observers as they exist in herbaria.  There is also the downside that there is very little possibility of examining or questioning any conclusions other observers might experience or make.  So classification cannot be said to be scientific and nor is it art.

It has taken me since 1969 to the present to gather data.  In that time I have observed change while also speculating about the degree of sampling and how complete my data set is.  Not only has the situation changed with time, but sampling by others from roughly the same territory has produced additional data that is inaccessible and cannot be used to truly test the hypothesis of my end product.

Cognitive dissonance.

As with “genus” and “species”, it is quite useful to refer to a dictionary for definition.  This means that you cannot be sure of getting a good and useful answer.  But I did this anyway with the words “cognitive dissonance”, and this is what I get…”Cognitive dissonance is a mental conflict that occurs when your beliefs do not line up with your actions.  It is an uncomfortable state of mind when someone has contradictory values, attitudes, or perspectives about the same thing.”  Is this an adequate definition?  I think not, quite apart from its construction.  The definition suggests a conscious decision when in fact my observation is that it operates far back in the subconscious as a denial of any information that conflicts with what is comfortable and necessary to believe and justify one’s own self-indulgence.  It is thus not an uncomfortable state but the very antithesis.  It all becomes a critical element when we start examining society and the nature of values in people as individuals or as groups of widely varying size and ethnicity.  Critical to the subject is the question of “can it be moulded and influenced?”.

The answer to that is absolutely profound and I doubt if I can do justice to it.  Just as I thought science arose as an intellectual discipline to identify truth from what we learned by what we were taught and imposed on us or the truth we could learn from personal experience and observation.  I was wrong.  Science has been used to deny the very spirituality that was awakening to question the role of religion and individuals posing as intermediaries for God Himself.  Dare I even say this in the way various religions pit one faction against another?  Is there motive and reason for the present poor state of the world?  But that is all at another level other than the more pedestrian need for stable and meaningful plant names.

The essence here is that there exists a non-cognitive dissonance that is far more destructive of human values and quality of society.  Perhaps it is impossible to deal with and why mystics warn us to break away from “friends” who we may attach to or who may attach to us (knowingly or unknowingly) because of a need of some kind.  This becomes a serious problem because being fully human may mean not doing anything that will disturb the comfort levels of another.  Let sleeping dogs lie or let dormant souls rest in peace?

Bruce Bayer, Kleinplasie, Wellington
18 February, 2023

Ethical collecting – a conversation

Tulista “andriesii” should be fully aired and talked about in relation to how, without becoming a police state, indigenous plants can become available fairly for people who really care – and also for honest and open trade. At the Karoo Garden I was instrumental in getting the plant collection there registered as an international repository. But who for? I doubt if there is anything left at all of past collected material. In fact one of the reasons I left SANBI is that the organisation seemed to set itself in competition with free trading growers. That was rather than grow and ensure that indigenous flora is legally available to the local industry. The story of Encephalartos latifrons should be exposed and fully explored. Is this the right way to go? “Is there an ethical collecting solution? – Bruce Bayer

One opinion to make, there should be a distinction between poaching and collecting. Because there seems to be none by those enforcing the laws. Collecting two plants or three plants, is not poaching. In my view, ethical collection should be assisted, as the official channels seems to have stopped supplying plants with good provenance, and that unfortunately left collectors, like myself, with no alternative to getting plants with locality info, to those traders who have collected plants illegally. But I try to support those who I find to be ethical about that, and not decimate whole populations for financial endeavors. With Conophytum at the moment, I am sceptical of almost all plants I see for sale, unless I know the seller has a good set of ethics I agree with. Though I do not grow Conophytum, but the principal is what was important in that scenario. – Andries Cilliers

You are so right Andries. It was always a massive problem for me when I worked at SANBI with the belief that it was on of my functions to assist species introductions and promotions. At one time we had a stream of overseas visitors looking for plant material of all kinds for commercial introduction. Now if someone is given a research collecting permit it specifically prohibits distribution of material for trade. It is a very thorny subject and my own very close ties with trade over the years are very uncomfortable. It is just a curious thing that foreigners seem to have been so successful in acquiring material. Overriding all this is now mass indiscriminate collecting and the mass of confiscated material regularly deposited at Kirstenbosch is heart breaking. There is also the issue of what constitutes any ones right to claim an authorship and opinion on taxonomic status. There is an international forum on this and a proper procedure to establish new names and have them recognised. Are we it? – Bruce Bayer

There’s a need for naming, and I think taxonomic articles with location data (from the past) have been exploited, as has all these online sources, like HaworthiaUpdates, Haworthia-gasteria.blogspot, soilsandroots, to name a few, to procure data and see where plants are found and try locating them. With a simple google search I found the farm name of the type locality of Conophytum youngii, which I then used to find the GPS pin for the farm house, and using the data on a few websites, some habitat photos, I roughly estimated where I think they grow. So unfortunately poachers are more resilient, and will find those obscure locations to find plants accurately, and then abuse the knowledge. We are but the custodians, to ensure our knowledge is not abused, and it is difficult, as my view is “Haworthia multifolia – Springfontein” on a photo is not much help, but it takes one look to find out where the farm is, and an old collection which states which side of the farm it is, an in a few days it can be located by field exploration. And in respect to naming, I like varietal levels, and distinctions between different elements, but also, it can be overwhelming. But if we, with experience in the plants, both in field and cultivation, are not spearheading it, it is left to those with no knowledge of the other to define, and that can result in an endless black hole. – Andries Cilliers

Actually I think we are perpetuating this black hole by not properly questioning the system. There is a very recent outstanding thesis on Tulista. Have you seen it and talked to the author, Steven Molteno? How informed are you actually on Conophytum classification and the reality of the species there – do you follow Hammer’s classification or do you have your own? Do you follow what Zander writes about Bryophytes, or what Sheldrake et al say about creation and cosmic consciousness? What Davidson has to say that the notion of species in botanical science, is not the same as the metaphysical one of different life forms? We are in an intellectual crisis and this is the black hole you are talking about. The reality to me seems that there was still place for me 60 years ago but not any more. It troubles me that for some one with your field skills, interest and knowledge, there is no place either. – Bruce Bayer

unfortunately only have Hammer’s work in my literature collection, and then I have contact with Christian Rodgerson, who has done extensive field observations of Conophytum with Andy Young, who does the redlist assessments for the genus. But I myself have very little knowledge on Mesemb taxonomy. One has a niche in which one has an interest, and that interest spurs knowledge, if you are willing to learn, but just because you follow a specific ideology, it does not mean you find no value in other ideologies. I would never say your views are null and void, but I also would not say I agree with all of your concepts. Taxonomy is not a single puzzle, but rather a box set. All these pieces fits into one greater picture, and our understanding is constantly changing. For all I know, in 30 years, maybe I would also come to the conclusion that groenewaldii fits in mutica, but for now, my view understands and inteprids it as a unique entity. Five years ago, I would have said Haworthia arachnoidea namaquensis is a good element, at the moment, I think Breuer is right to see different varieties of arachnoidea in the larger concept of Haworthia arachnoidea namaquensis. – Andries Cilliers

I wish I could inform you about Conophytum and my knowledge of this group and its taxonomy. I can assure you that it is more complex and confused than Haworthia and if you have an authoritative source for names you have deluded yourself. I spent many years in Prof Hartmann’s company re mesemb taxonomy and with Conophytum enthusiasts. The KBG used to host an amazing collection dating back to Mrs Bolus and Roy Littlewood that is by now probably absolutely worthless. I those days there were nurseries that were trading largely with field collected plants. – Bruce Bayer