Tulista “andriesii” should be fully aired and talked about in relation to how, without becoming a police state, indigenous plants can become available fairly for people who really care – and also for honest and open trade. At the Karoo Garden I was instrumental in getting the plant collection there registered as an international repository. But who for? I doubt if there is anything left at all of past collected material. In fact one of the reasons I left SANBI is that the organisation seemed to set itself in competition with free trading growers. That was rather than grow and ensure that indigenous flora is legally available to the local industry. The story of Encephalartos latifrons should be exposed and fully explored. Is this the right way to go? “Is there an ethical collecting solution? – Bruce Bayer

One opinion to make, there should be a distinction between poaching and collecting. Because there seems to be none by those enforcing the laws. Collecting two plants or three plants, is not poaching. In my view, ethical collection should be assisted, as the official channels seems to have stopped supplying plants with good provenance, and that unfortunately left collectors, like myself, with no alternative to getting plants with locality info, to those traders who have collected plants illegally. But I try to support those who I find to be ethical about that, and not decimate whole populations for financial endeavors. With Conophytum at the moment, I am sceptical of almost all plants I see for sale, unless I know the seller has a good set of ethics I agree with. Though I do not grow Conophytum, but the principal is what was important in that scenario. – Andries Cilliers

You are so right Andries. It was always a massive problem for me when I worked at SANBI with the belief that it was on of my functions to assist species introductions and promotions. At one time we had a stream of overseas visitors looking for plant material of all kinds for commercial introduction. Now if someone is given a research collecting permit it specifically prohibits distribution of material for trade. It is a very thorny subject and my own very close ties with trade over the years are very uncomfortable. It is just a curious thing that foreigners seem to have been so successful in acquiring material. Overriding all this is now mass indiscriminate collecting and the mass of confiscated material regularly deposited at Kirstenbosch is heart breaking. There is also the issue of what constitutes any ones right to claim an authorship and opinion on taxonomic status. There is an international forum on this and a proper procedure to establish new names and have them recognised. Are we it? – Bruce Bayer

There’s a need for naming, and I think taxonomic articles with location data (from the past) have been exploited, as has all these online sources, like HaworthiaUpdates, Haworthia-gasteria.blogspot, soilsandroots, to name a few, to procure data and see where plants are found and try locating them. With a simple google search I found the farm name of the type locality of Conophytum youngii, which I then used to find the GPS pin for the farm house, and using the data on a few websites, some habitat photos, I roughly estimated where I think they grow. So unfortunately poachers are more resilient, and will find those obscure locations to find plants accurately, and then abuse the knowledge. We are but the custodians, to ensure our knowledge is not abused, and it is difficult, as my view is “Haworthia multifolia – Springfontein” on a photo is not much help, but it takes one look to find out where the farm is, and an old collection which states which side of the farm it is, an in a few days it can be located by field exploration. And in respect to naming, I like varietal levels, and distinctions between different elements, but also, it can be overwhelming. But if we, with experience in the plants, both in field and cultivation, are not spearheading it, it is left to those with no knowledge of the other to define, and that can result in an endless black hole. – Andries Cilliers

Actually I think we are perpetuating this black hole by not properly questioning the system. There is a very recent outstanding thesis on Tulista. Have you seen it and talked to the author, Steven Molteno? How informed are you actually on Conophytum classification and the reality of the species there – do you follow Hammer’s classification or do you have your own? Do you follow what Zander writes about Bryophytes, or what Sheldrake et al say about creation and cosmic consciousness? What Davidson has to say that the notion of species in botanical science, is not the same as the metaphysical one of different life forms? We are in an intellectual crisis and this is the black hole you are talking about. The reality to me seems that there was still place for me 60 years ago but not any more. It troubles me that for some one with your field skills, interest and knowledge, there is no place either. – Bruce Bayer

unfortunately only have Hammer’s work in my literature collection, and then I have contact with Christian Rodgerson, who has done extensive field observations of Conophytum with Andy Young, who does the redlist assessments for the genus. But I myself have very little knowledge on Mesemb taxonomy. One has a niche in which one has an interest, and that interest spurs knowledge, if you are willing to learn, but just because you follow a specific ideology, it does not mean you find no value in other ideologies. I would never say your views are null and void, but I also would not say I agree with all of your concepts. Taxonomy is not a single puzzle, but rather a box set. All these pieces fits into one greater picture, and our understanding is constantly changing. For all I know, in 30 years, maybe I would also come to the conclusion that groenewaldii fits in mutica, but for now, my view understands and inteprids it as a unique entity. Five years ago, I would have said Haworthia arachnoidea namaquensis is a good element, at the moment, I think Breuer is right to see different varieties of arachnoidea in the larger concept of Haworthia arachnoidea namaquensis. – Andries Cilliers

I wish I could inform you about Conophytum and my knowledge of this group and its taxonomy. I can assure you that it is more complex and confused than Haworthia and if you have an authoritative source for names you have deluded yourself. I spent many years in Prof Hartmann’s company re mesemb taxonomy and with Conophytum enthusiasts. The KBG used to host an amazing collection dating back to Mrs Bolus and Roy Littlewood that is by now probably absolutely worthless. I those days there were nurseries that were trading largely with field collected plants. – Bruce Bayer